I had this exact same dilemma (saw extreme school choice leading to school shopping and hollowing out neighborhood options) and have landed strongly on limiting school choice.
My reasoning is
a) almost all the neighborhood school problems go away if the majority of families in neighborhood actually send their kids there (eg, a more diverse and representative student body means less opportunity for ideological calorie)
B) choice can happen at the level of the neighborhood school—accelerated programs or special programs. Districts should focus on offering more choice at level of neighborhood school
I send my kids to neighborhood Catholic school, but see same problems affecting private school. There are Catholic families in our neighborhood that send their kids to destination Catholic schools because they’re bigger. But if everyone sent to parish Catholic school, they would have more even enrollment
Thank you for sharing Alicia. My biggest issue is that I cannot find good research showing that school choice actually improves student outcomes on net.
For some students it seems to help, but not for others. So I've have a hard time fully embracing the concept, even if it would seem to benefit in theory
This conundrum is partly caused by the dearth of other ways for kids to meet and interact. If you had found the perfect free-range city (with pick up games in the park and afternoon jobs and kids knocking on each others' doors), would you care as much?
Fair point. Actually I’d say our neighborhood park is such a good social scene that it helps offset the school fragmentation. I guess this is one of those things where the frustration isn’t so much that things are *bad*, but that things could seemingly be so much *better*.
This is such a great post, and I love how you don’t try to push an answer. I’ve felt similarly. I spent my childhood going to my zoned public school, but they were not within walking distance at all. My high school was a 20 min drive from my house. Then as an adult, I watched the complexities of school choice in Knoxville, TN while working with students after school. Kids zoned for the lowest achieving schools going across town for the high achieving ones, but did they truly connect with other students or be able to participate in extracurriculars because of how hard that was on the parent? Then as a parent in Baltimore, we couldn’t send our child to the charter school a block away from our house because she didn’t make the lottery. The zoned school was equal distance from a language charter school she actually got in to. We ended up sending her to the language school for a year, but wasn’t sure if it was the right fit long term. It’s all so complicated and I don’t have answers and I appreciate you describing that nuance so well
Growing up, I attended schools less than a mile from my house through middle school (and walked or biked every day). My kids, in a different place, walk to school an even shorter distance, and my son can go on his own to his best friend's house through back yards.
Our school is good, and segregated by zoning and house prices, which is a real problem. But the school I grew up going to was not at all, and it was still a really positive experience which meant that I was determined to have my own kids live walking distance to school.
We need to do better about zoning and funding and catchment zone drawing to avoid the exclusion, but the decline of the neighborhood school, and most trends in school design over the last 40 years, have been destructive and we need to go back.
Zoning is obviously one of the big factors, but as long as there's big differences is school success rates based on demographics there will be self-reinforcing trends in school quality wrt home prices.
Our kids are also in a charter, not far away but not walkable. So a lot of this relates. In our case, we have an urban district that also has charter options (as well as parochial). We love our school in many respects, but I do miss the neighborhood aspect that you describe.
The thing is, the old school district model is basically dead. It was meant for a different era - one that was much more high trust and culturally cohesive. We don’t have either anymore. So I think this is the leading edge now of a new system, and I suspect it will ultimately lead to some sort of reinvention of the public neighborhood model as well. I have so many thoughts on this issue that single comment can’t do it justice. But it’s definitely a major issue we tend to discuss in only very simplistic ways.
Thank you for writing this. As a left-libertarian watching a similar policy being considered in NH, I appreciate your thoughtful commentary. As you say, one of the main reasons people move to particular neighborhoods is to get their children into particular schools. But this is not to say that school choice eliminates school location as a consideration for where we move. As you say, it only loosens that coupling.
Schools have traditionally reflected neighborhood values, since residents were more-or-less locked in to a particular school. School choice creates incentives for the opposite to develop -- for schools to attract neighborhood residents that reflect that school's values. Of course, this is an iterative process with feedback from the neighborhood. But the core issue, that school choice doesn't change, is that there's substantial value in having our children live near their schools.
I moved to Florida where we have full school choice via vouchers and that even includes homeschooling. We love it, couldn't be happier.
The public schools are emptying out more and more every year and new private schools are being built. I think eventually there will be a huge turnover, people whose kids are turning 5 aren't pot committed to their local schools.
I had this exact same dilemma (saw extreme school choice leading to school shopping and hollowing out neighborhood options) and have landed strongly on limiting school choice.
My reasoning is
a) almost all the neighborhood school problems go away if the majority of families in neighborhood actually send their kids there (eg, a more diverse and representative student body means less opportunity for ideological calorie)
B) choice can happen at the level of the neighborhood school—accelerated programs or special programs. Districts should focus on offering more choice at level of neighborhood school
I send my kids to neighborhood Catholic school, but see same problems affecting private school. There are Catholic families in our neighborhood that send their kids to destination Catholic schools because they’re bigger. But if everyone sent to parish Catholic school, they would have more even enrollment
Thank you for sharing Alicia. My biggest issue is that I cannot find good research showing that school choice actually improves student outcomes on net.
For some students it seems to help, but not for others. So I've have a hard time fully embracing the concept, even if it would seem to benefit in theory
I really enjoyed this piece Andrew.
I am grappling with the same issue now at Risk & Progress.
Although I don't have access to school choice for my son, I have always favored a voucher system where parents get to choose where their children go.
This seems logical, that competition would improve school quality. Still, I can't find the research to fully justify this belief.
In fact, I started writing an essay about it and had to stop halfway through. I just don't know the answer.
The data on vouchers is hardly inspiring. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. What education model can we look toward for inspiration?
This conundrum is partly caused by the dearth of other ways for kids to meet and interact. If you had found the perfect free-range city (with pick up games in the park and afternoon jobs and kids knocking on each others' doors), would you care as much?
Fair point. Actually I’d say our neighborhood park is such a good social scene that it helps offset the school fragmentation. I guess this is one of those things where the frustration isn’t so much that things are *bad*, but that things could seemingly be so much *better*.
This is such a great post, and I love how you don’t try to push an answer. I’ve felt similarly. I spent my childhood going to my zoned public school, but they were not within walking distance at all. My high school was a 20 min drive from my house. Then as an adult, I watched the complexities of school choice in Knoxville, TN while working with students after school. Kids zoned for the lowest achieving schools going across town for the high achieving ones, but did they truly connect with other students or be able to participate in extracurriculars because of how hard that was on the parent? Then as a parent in Baltimore, we couldn’t send our child to the charter school a block away from our house because she didn’t make the lottery. The zoned school was equal distance from a language charter school she actually got in to. We ended up sending her to the language school for a year, but wasn’t sure if it was the right fit long term. It’s all so complicated and I don’t have answers and I appreciate you describing that nuance so well
Thanks, Darren!
Growing up, I attended schools less than a mile from my house through middle school (and walked or biked every day). My kids, in a different place, walk to school an even shorter distance, and my son can go on his own to his best friend's house through back yards.
Our school is good, and segregated by zoning and house prices, which is a real problem. But the school I grew up going to was not at all, and it was still a really positive experience which meant that I was determined to have my own kids live walking distance to school.
We need to do better about zoning and funding and catchment zone drawing to avoid the exclusion, but the decline of the neighborhood school, and most trends in school design over the last 40 years, have been destructive and we need to go back.
It really always comes back to zoning Sam. Almost everything does.
Zoning is obviously one of the big factors, but as long as there's big differences is school success rates based on demographics there will be self-reinforcing trends in school quality wrt home prices.
Our kids are also in a charter, not far away but not walkable. So a lot of this relates. In our case, we have an urban district that also has charter options (as well as parochial). We love our school in many respects, but I do miss the neighborhood aspect that you describe.
The thing is, the old school district model is basically dead. It was meant for a different era - one that was much more high trust and culturally cohesive. We don’t have either anymore. So I think this is the leading edge now of a new system, and I suspect it will ultimately lead to some sort of reinvention of the public neighborhood model as well. I have so many thoughts on this issue that single comment can’t do it justice. But it’s definitely a major issue we tend to discuss in only very simplistic ways.
Very wise reflections Andrew.
I think you would really appreciate Neil Postman's "The End of Education"
Thank you for writing this. As a left-libertarian watching a similar policy being considered in NH, I appreciate your thoughtful commentary. As you say, one of the main reasons people move to particular neighborhoods is to get their children into particular schools. But this is not to say that school choice eliminates school location as a consideration for where we move. As you say, it only loosens that coupling.
Schools have traditionally reflected neighborhood values, since residents were more-or-less locked in to a particular school. School choice creates incentives for the opposite to develop -- for schools to attract neighborhood residents that reflect that school's values. Of course, this is an iterative process with feedback from the neighborhood. But the core issue, that school choice doesn't change, is that there's substantial value in having our children live near their schools.
Thanks, Eric. I wish your community well as you all work through this!
I moved to Florida where we have full school choice via vouchers and that even includes homeschooling. We love it, couldn't be happier.
The public schools are emptying out more and more every year and new private schools are being built. I think eventually there will be a huge turnover, people whose kids are turning 5 aren't pot committed to their local schools.